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  • #16
    How do you plan to connect the analog out from the Oppo? Will it go to a separate preamp or integrated amp? As I've mentioned before, if you intend to use your AVR, you are very likely not using the Oppo DAC, which appears to be the reason you are going down this path. If the Denon uses ADDA processing, which I suspect it does, then you are still using the Denon DAC, not the Oppo.

    You may want to disable LMS on the pi and continue to use LMS on the VB until you sort out the other issues. There is no advantage to using LMS on the pi unless you want to stop using the VB completely and attach another drive with your music library. If you still want to use the Oppo in the chain with the pi, then the pi can be attached by HDMI or USB directly. You can use spdif or optical by adding a digital out card to the pi. The pi has an onboard DAC/spdif out, but does not sound good. It would be OK for a background music application. The Audio output method is selected on the pi>Squeezelite tab.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by GuruPete View Post
      Looking for a free server for Windows to stream my hi-rez flac music files from my VB to the networking option in my new Oppo 203
      I'm no expert, but it seems like some of what you want to do could be accomplished similar to what I've got running, so I'll share my thoughts.
      The "server" is not on Windows, it's on your VB's drive, right ? What streams the music from VB to Oppo's DAC will be a "player" and it seems your current squeeze2upnp attempts have are not 100% satisfying. I'm thinking you should just configure Oppo as player directly, as it appears capable.

      I have had SBT as player, and still keep one plugged in, but it's not getting used (except to display clock.) . Instead of the SBT, part of my house setup includes a VB with USB connection into Rotel Preamp, and nearby I have a high power Windows DAW machine for home recording, with a Focusrite digital interface going into near-field monitors. So depending on your layout, you could just connect the VB to the Oppo with USB if they are close enough, or install squeezelite player on the Windows machine and take the USB out to the Oppo. Either of these would require being close enough to the Oppo for USB, but if that fits then it works great with no need for any Rasberry Pi. I was not clear why you'd have needed that unless you had too much distance for USB and had to reach a player with network.

      What I'm describing works right away with VB as soon as you connect your Oppo (USB) and configure player.
      For the Windows machine, getting squeezelite installed and to start up as a "service" each boot is a bit more involved, but my low level tech skills got it working right away, and that lets my Windows DAW stream from the VB out via USB to the Focusrite interface (avoids the PC's sound card altogether.)

      IF you can run USB from VB to Oppo, then go to your VB page (should be same as the LMS IP address with the :9000 cut off the end) and find the "configure player" icon along the left edge, 8th one down.
      In the first blank cell under "Audio Output Device" you'll need to enter something like hw:PCUSB,0 and then under "name" type what you want, then hit submit and if it finds the device the MAC address fills in by itself. You have to do this with the Oppo connected and powered up, and your actual "Audio Output Device" is likely different. But just have your stuff connected and hit submit, and see if the Oppo shows up on the page under"Alsa Device List". If it does, then first try this: Just take what is inside the brackets and insert that into the "Audio Output Device" line between the hw; and the ,1

      Like for my own Rotel preamp, the Alsa Device list shows it as this:
      1 [PCUSB ]: USB-Audio - Rotel PC-USB

      And to configure that as a player, I took the text that was inside the brackets and used it in this syntax for my Audio Output Device:
      hw:PCUSB,0

      Configuring player by using the name found in brackets is by far the easiest route, but you might need to try a 1 instead of the 0 after the last comma if it fails to configure. But using this "name" seems to hold the player configuration persistently, compared to the more complex methods of naming Audio Output Device. Or you might need to research how else to read your Alsa device lists with command line, but it is possible you can avoid all that so give it a shot. All of this is contingent on you being withine USB cable reach between VB and Oppo.
      For USB straight into Oppo, you won't need any additional devices, plugins, or instances of LMS. When it is done, the LMS you have on VB will just show the Oppo as a player, and it should work fine for any hi-res or DSD stuff you can feed it, as the Oppo shows it is ready for the typical lossless formats. And the Oppo then IS the player, which is the best way to utilize it.

      If you cared about running squeezelite on a Windows machine (like I'm enjoying being able to stream VB out of my DAW interface) then I'd encourage you to research/google it, and ask here if it interests you.
      John A

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      • #18
        Originally posted by jimmi View Post
        How do you plan to connect the analog out from the Oppo? Will it go to a separate preamp or integrated amp? As I've mentioned before, if you intend to use your AVR, you are very likely not using the Oppo DAC, which appears to be the reason you are going down this path. If the Denon uses ADDA processing, which I suspect it does, then you are still using the Denon DAC, not the Oppo.

        You may want to disable LMS on the pi and continue to use LMS on the VB until you sort out the other issues. There is no advantage to using LMS on the pi unless you want to stop using the VB completely and attach another drive with your music library. If you still want to use the Oppo in the chain with the pi, then the pi can be attached by HDMI or USB directly. You can use spdif or optical by adding a digital out card to the pi. The pi has an onboard DAC/spdif out, but does not sound good. It would be OK for a background music application. The Audio output method is selected on the pi>Squeezelite tab.
        Thank you for your reply.

        I am using the Denon AVR but, according to Oppo tech support (who I contacted a few weeks ago) if I connect the Oppo's analogue to the Denon analogue, the Oppo will do the "heavy lifting" (their words).

        I'm going to give "Max2Play" a go in the Pi to see if I find it more comfortable.

        Will report back.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by john_a View Post
          I'm no expert, but it seems like some of what you want to do could be accomplished similar to what I've got running, so I'll share my thoughts.
          The "server" is not on Windows, it's on your VB's drive, right ? What streams the music from VB to Oppo's DAC will be a "player" and it seems your current squeeze2upnp attempts have are not 100% satisfying. I'm thinking you should just configure Oppo as player directly, as it appears capable.
          I have had SBT as player, and still keep one plugged in, but it's not getting used (except to display clock.) . Instead of the SBT, part of my house setup includes a VB with USB connection into Rotel Preamp, and nearby I have a high power Windows DAW machine for home recording, with a Focusrite digital interface going into near-field monitors. So depending on your layout, you could just connect the VB to the Oppo with USB if they are close enough, or install squeezelite player on the Windows machine and take the USB out to the Oppo. Either of these would require being close enough to the Oppo for USB, but if that fits then it works great with no need for any Rasberry Pi. I was not clear why you'd have needed that unless you had too much distance for USB and had to reach a player with network.
          What I'm describing works right away with VB as soon as you connect your Oppo (USB) and configure player.
          For the Windows machine, getting squeezelite installed and to start up as a "service" each boot is a bit more involved, but my low level tech skills got it working right away, and that lets my Windows DAW stream from the VB out via USB to the Focusrite interface (avoids the PC's sound card altogether.)
          IF you can run USB from VB to Oppo, then go to your VB page (should be same as the LMS IP address with the :9000 cut off the end) and find the "configure player" icon along the left edge, 8th one down.
          In the first blank cell under "Audio Output Device" you'll need to enter something like hw:PCUSB,0 and then under "name" type what you want, then hit submit and if it finds the device the MAC address fills in by itself. You have to do this with the Oppo connected and powered up, and your actual "Audio Output Device" is likely different. But just have your stuff connected and hit submit, and see if the Oppo shows up on the page under"Alsa Device List". If it does, then first try this: Just take what is inside the brackets and insert that into the "Audio Output Device" line between the hw; and the ,1
          Like for my own Rotel preamp, the Alsa Device list shows it as this:
          1 [PCUSB ]: USB-Audio - Rotel PC-USB
          And to configure that as a player, I took the text that was inside the brackets and used it in this syntax for my Audio Output Device:
          hw:PCUSB,0
          Configuring player by using the name found in brackets is by far the easiest route, but you might need to try a 1 instead of the 0 after the last comma if it fails to configure. But using this "name" seems to hold the player configuration persistently, compared to the more complex methods of naming Audio Output Device. Or you might need to research how else to read your Alsa device lists with command line, but it is possible you can avoid all that so give it a shot. All of this is contingent on you being withine USB cable reach between VB and Oppo.
          For USB straight into Oppo, you won't need any additional devices, plugins, or instances of LMS. When it is done, the LMS you have on VB will just show the Oppo as a player, and it should work fine for any hi-res or DSD stuff you can feed it, as the Oppo shows it is ready for the typical lossless formats. And the Oppo then IS the player, which is the best way to utilize it.
          If you cared about running squeezelite on a Windows machine (like I'm enjoying being able to stream VB out of my DAW interface) then I'd encourage you to research/google it, and ask here if it interests you.
          John A
          Thanks for the reply John.

          Yes, LMS is in the VB drive, and the VB is connected by cable directly to my modem and is part of my home network. Both VB and modem are located in another room. The SBT was plugged by optical into my Denon AVR and would pick up LMS in the VB and play it through my lounge room system. I would control what was being played with an android app on my smartphone.

          I'm trying to replicate the same with the Oppo and keep using the same apps instead of the Oppo app. It doesn't have the same functionality as Orange Squeeze or any of the other LMS apps. You can't load up songs to play one-after-the-other (unless it's a saved playlist), the search function is not as good. It only loads basic browsing categories (artist, album, genre, new music). It doesn't have any other categories that LMS has (eg. internet radio).

          You have given me some suggestions that I will give a try. I guess the worst case scenario in all this is that I have to use the Oppo app. I still get to enjoy the sound coming out of it's DAC

          I'll let you know how it goes.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by GuruPete View Post

            Thank you for your reply.

            I am using the Denon AVR but, according to Oppo tech support (who I contacted a few weeks ago) if I connect the Oppo's analogue to the Denon analogue, the Oppo will do the "heavy lifting" (their words).

            I'm going to give "Max2Play" a go in the Pi to see if I find it more comfortable.

            Will report back.
            Sorry, but that makes little sense. Unless your AVR is ancient, it will have a reasonable DAC. Having the Denon convert the Oppo analog back to digital and then perform another DA conversion will not somehow result in a superior analog signal than just going straight into the Denon with a digital input. There is no "heavy lifting " to be done by the Oppo. I also use Oppo and have done since their original unit was introduced. I have also used Denon AVR's. I think you may be experiencing expectation bias if you feel that just inserting the Oppo into the same signal path as before, but with additional processing steps now included, is producing a superior sound.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Transporter View Post

              You have ONLY changed your server software, nothing in the signal path has changed so it only sounds better because you WANT it to sound better. You have not changed the File and you have not changed the output device, hence it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to sound either better or worse, it HAS to sound the same. You sir have Expectation Bias or are attempting to justify the $119 a year your are spending!
              Think that if yuo like, but in my system the improvement was marked and measurable. Better FR and the waterfall plot shows less distortion. I am not a novice.

              Comment


              • #22
                Sorry for not following up sooner. Here’s a simple way to get what you want now that you have the Pi:

                I’d stick with piCoreplayer. It’s simple and basic and does exactly what you need. It’s so tiny that it loads entirely into the memory of the Pi upon boot and remains purely memory-resident. That means you can simply plug and unplug it at will as a handy way to reboot without having to worry about file system corruption, etc.

                Here’s how I’d recommend proceeding.
                -Go to the web menu of your piCoreplayer.
                -Choose the “Squeezelite” settings
                - From the “Audio Output” dropbox select “HDMI Output” and press save. This will probably reboot the Pi.

                Connect an HDMI cable from the Pi to the HDMI Input (NOT the output) of your Oppo 203. Select this device and you should have what you want. You can change the name of the player from the “Squeezelite Settings” menu as well and select this player from Orange Squeeze.

                I have also used Max2Play for other applications that need something extra. It’s a bigger application with more complexity and abilities. It’s greatest advantage is the ability to run its own local iteration of LMS, but I wouldn’t use this hardware/software config for a large collection and/or one I needed to run special or complex features. Over the holidays a friend asked me for a “Christmas Music Machine”. I put a new SD card in a Pi loaded with Max2Play and about 8GB of Christmas music. The Pi was connected to a boom box I had an instant Christmas Music machine. After Christmas I pulled the SD card and put it in the drawer for next year. I would still use piCorePlayer if I only want to use the Pi as an LMS client. One of the best features of the Pi is the ability to swap out SD cards and instantly morph what your Pi is and does.

                Good luck!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by dyohn View Post

                  Think that if yuo like, but in my system the improvement was marked and measurable. Better FR and the waterfall plot shows less distortion. I am not a novice.
                  Please explain how this could happen, since Roon does nothing to alter or modify the audio information, just the metadata. And this is how it should be....you would not want some mysterious alteration to your core files. The server software should be transparent. Even Roon does not claim to improve the sound quality. If they were altering the digital data to such a degree that it was measureable as you suggest, I would be concerned.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by chabelo View Post
                    Sorry for not following up sooner. Here’s a simple way to get what you want now that you have the Pi:

                    I’d stick with piCoreplayer. It’s simple and basic and does exactly what you need. It’s so tiny that it loads entirely into the memory of the Pi upon boot and remains purely memory-resident. That means you can simply plug and unplug it at will as a handy way to reboot without having to worry about file system corruption, etc.

                    Here’s how I’d recommend proceeding.
                    -Go to the web menu of your piCoreplayer.
                    -Choose the “Squeezelite” settings
                    - From the “Audio Output” dropbox select “HDMI Output” and press save. This will probably reboot the Pi.

                    Connect an HDMI cable from the Pi to the HDMI Input (NOT the output) of your Oppo 203. Select this device and you should have what you want. You can change the name of the player from the “Squeezelite Settings” menu as well and select this player from Orange Squeeze.

                    I have also used Max2Play for other applications that need something extra. It’s a bigger application with more complexity and abilities. It’s greatest advantage is the ability to run its own local iteration of LMS, but I wouldn’t use this hardware/software config for a large collection and/or one I needed to run special or complex features. Over the holidays a friend asked me for a “Christmas Music Machine”. I put a new SD card in a Pi loaded with Max2Play and about 8GB of Christmas music. The Pi was connected to a boom box I had an instant Christmas Music machine. After Christmas I pulled the SD card and put it in the drawer for next year. I would still use piCorePlayer if I only want to use the Pi as an LMS client. One of the best features of the Pi is the ability to swap out SD cards and instantly morph what your Pi is and does.

                    Good luck!
                    Please, no apology necessary, Actually, I am currently trying out that suggestion of using HDMI.

                    The problem I'm having is trying to get max2play to mount the VB storage drive so that it will scan it. The Pi is showing on my network map, I just can't get it to scan my VB.

                    I'm sure I'll sort it out.

                    In the mean time, I seem to have gotten the "squeeze2upnp" plug in working more reliably so I'm happy with that as it's doing what I have been trying to set up.

                    I may be experiencing "expectation bias" (as jimmi states) and, if that's the case, it's certainly a condition that I'm happy to have. Even my wife, who doesn't sit there listening as intently as me whilst she reads Facebook or does her knitting, will suddenly turn to me and say that she hasn't heard that instrument in the background before, or it sounds more prominent. And these are songs that we have heard 100s of times over the many decades we have been listening to music so we have a pretty good idea how they normally sound.

                    So "expectation bias" is good in our case!

                    Many thanks to you all for your suggestions.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by jimmi View Post

                      Please explain how this could happen, since Roon does nothing to alter or modify the audio information, just the metadata. And this is how it should be....you would not want some mysterious alteration to your core files. The server software should be transparent. Even Roon does not claim to improve the sound quality. If they were altering the digital data to such a degree that it was measureable as you suggest, I would be concerned.
                      I can't explain it. All I know is the delivery stream from ROON is superior to the stream from LMS. It sounds better and it measures better. Perhaps it's the player (squeezelite VS the Roon player.) I don't know and I really don't care. All I know is I like it, and I like Roon a lot more than I liked LMS (and I'm an LMS user since the Slim Devices days.) YMMV.
                      Last edited by dyohn; 07-17-2017, 10:47 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Glad to hear. IMHO you will be far happier using your Pi as a client off of your VB's LMS than running another instance of LMS on the Pi and then mounting across the network to access music files from your VB. The former is a far simpler solution and your VB is far more fit to act as a server than the Pi is. Good for you if you're getting squeeze2upnp to fit your needs too

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by dyohn View Post

                          Think that if you like, but in my system the improvement was marked and measurable. Better FR and the waterfall plot shows less distortion. I am not a novice.
                          First, I don't have to think what I like, because I KNOW for a fact there is absolutely no difference because I am an RF Digital Engineer and have been working in the digital domain for decades. Actually you are either a Novice or you have NO CLUE how Digital and Analog Files work and act nor how they progress from the Server to your Speakers. It is IMPOSSIBLE for Roon Server to improve anything in the audio chain or improve audio output. Roon is only Server software and is only telling your equipment to playback the same files you have ALWAYS had! Absolutely nothing has changed except for the server software controlling those exact same digital files being sent to you equipment IE nothing in the actual audio path whether Digital or Analog has changed!

                          The only thing you are hearing is false Expectation Bias, period! Whether one uses Roon, LMS, or Sonos, ALL file audio output looks identical on an HP Network Analyzer and HP Measuring Receiver! Why, because all those Server Softwares just listed only feed the exact same Digital File to the exact same starting point (ones DAC or Media Player) in ones audio chain to start the playback!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by chabelo View Post
                            Glad to hear. IMHO you will be far happier using your Pi as a client off of your VB's LMS than running another instance of LMS on the Pi and then mounting across the network to access music files from your VB. The former is a far simpler solution and your VB is far more fit to act as a server than the Pi is. Good for you if you're getting squeeze2upnp to fit your needs too
                            That's not entirely true. It depends whether your VB is 2.3 or 2.4 and whether you want to run Michael's new Spotty.
                            If its 2.3 then use the Pi as 2.3 won't run Spotty.
                            If its 2.4 then you should be Ok to run Spotty and I would agree.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by d6jg View Post

                              That's not entirely true. It depends whether your VB is 2.3 or 2.4 and whether you want to run Michael's new Spotty.
                              If its 2.3 then use the Pi as 2.3 won't run Spotty.
                              If its 2.4 then you should be Ok to run Spotty and I would agree.
                              All the more reason to run 2.4 How old is 2.3 at this point? It's running Fedora 20 (Linux kernel 3.12) which hasn't been supported/updated since 6/23/2015. There are a great deal of fairly serious security issues if the box is connected to the Internet, as is nearly always the case.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Transporter View Post

                                First, I don't have to think what I like, because I KNOW for a fact there is absolutely no difference because I am an RF Digital Engineer and have been working in the digital domain for decades. Actually you are either a Novice or you have NO CLUE how Digital and Analog Files work and act nor how they progress from the Server to your Speakers. It is IMPOSSIBLE for Roon Server to improve anything in the audio chain or improve audio output. Roon is only Server software and is only telling your equipment to playback the same files you have ALWAYS had! Absolutely nothing has changed except for the server software controlling those exact same digital files being sent to you equipment IE nothing in the actual audio path whether Digital or Analog has changed!

                                The only thing you are hearing is false Expectation Bias, period! Whether one uses Roon, LMS, or Sonos, ALL file audio output looks identical on an HP Network Analyzer and HP Measuring Receiver! Why, because all those Server Softwares just listed only feed the exact same Digital File to the exact same starting point (ones DAC or Media Player) in ones audio chain to start the playback!
                                I'm a EE with a PhD in complex systems theory if you'd like to compare CVs. The difference is Roon sounds better. It measures better. It is better. Period. And remember it's not just the server (with a completely different method of serving the files that LMS) it's also the player that changed. Try it yourself. Youi might like it.

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